tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post3817338328619453693..comments2024-03-28T21:37:32.436-04:00Comments on Author, Jody Hedlund: Two Extremes Writers Take & How To Avoid ThemJody Hedlundhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12424307540530719614noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-40432315794370837372011-05-01T17:08:32.595-04:002011-05-01T17:08:32.595-04:00Excellent post! I particularly appreciate the anal...Excellent post! I particularly appreciate the analogy to a house; that helped me envision your viewpoint. And I agree with it.<br /><br />Thanks for the reminder to pursue excellence in our writing craft while maintaining our own unique flair!Julie Gloverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14750682989494250914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-50255090381215206872011-05-01T11:07:56.749-04:002011-05-01T11:07:56.749-04:00You're right, you do need both. But I find th...You're right, you do need both. But I find that reading how to books is less helpful than just reading good books. If someone tells me in a how to book : do this, I understand but I don't really absorb it as well as I do by seeing it done in an actual story. I think that is where the instinctive understanding mentioned earlier comes from, reading a lot to see what works.Mary Kate Leahyhttp://houseoflaoch.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-27131322892987795942011-04-30T10:38:58.423-04:002011-04-30T10:38:58.423-04:00Carradee, Great point about some things be instinc...Carradee, Great point about some things be instinctive (or subconscious). If we've grown up submerged in literature of poetry or reading, then we've probably picked up some of the rhythms and flows of story-telling or poetry. But as you said, it also important to begin to understand some of those things that may come naturally so that we can hone our skills and make ourselves even better.Jody Hedlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12424307540530719614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-87188845155068940942011-04-30T09:06:44.222-04:002011-04-30T09:06:44.222-04:00It's quite annoying when people assume that wh...It's quite annoying when people assume that what happens to <em>them</em> with a certain route will happen to everybody.<br /><br />I read grammar handbooks and how-to-write manuals for fun. I'm a freelance writer who also writes speculative fiction. It's quite normal for me to find fiction-writing tips that help my freelancing, and freelance writing tips that help my fiction writing.<br /><br />I do believe that you need to know the writing "rules" to be able to break them. If you don't understand why the rules exist, you'll probably end up proving them right in your breakage of them.<br /><br />But here's the kicker: You can know those "rules" <em>subconsciously</em>.<br /><br />I took a poetry writing class for 2 reasons in college:<br />1. My brother dabbles in poetry, and I figured it would help me critique him.<br />2. I have trouble understanding poetry and figured it might help me comprehend it better if I learned to write it.<br /><br />We were handed a book of poems, told to write a poem inspired by something from one of the poems in the part of the book we had to read. I came up with something that kicked off my teacher telling me later that if I weren't so cheery, he'd be worried about me.<br /><br />I turned it in, got it back, and stared at all the "very good sense of [poetry terms that I had no idea of what he was talking about]". I evidently have an <em>instinctive</em> understanding of flow and rhyme. (I still think it's <a href="http://www.cuppacaff.com/2007/12/rehinged.html" rel="nofollow">my best poem</a>.)<br /><br />So my prose gets all the rule-study and bending. My poetry gets the instinctive treatment.Carradeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05431561739001270522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-89559402428534310322011-04-19T19:27:38.957-04:002011-04-19T19:27:38.957-04:00I remember reading that comment on one of your ear...I remember reading that comment on one of your earlier posts and smiling. Its author's blog is full of protests, rants and negativity so I'm not surprised she had something critical to say. Your summary is the perfect positive response.<br /><br />I've heard a number of people go on, and on, <i>and on</i>, telling what had the nucleus of a good story, but it was told so poorly I had trouble feigning interest. Learning helpful techniques doesn't mean an original story can't be creatively told; it simply helps us avoid the pitfalls of bad storytelling.Carol J. Garvinhttp://careann.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-59509340351847103512011-04-19T18:59:12.509-04:002011-04-19T18:59:12.509-04:00Some people, including writers, have very strong o...Some people, including writers, have very strong opinions and they don't have the grace to restrain themselves. They seem to want to bash everyone over the head with their opinion. As far as writing is concerned, it's a craft you have to learn. And like everything else, you learn the rules so you know when and how to break them. I've learned a lot from reading in general, but also from how-to books on writing. Many writers have done this also, but we all have very distinct voices and writing styles.<br /><br />It's like baking a cake. The first couple of times you might follow the recipe, but by the third or fourth time you alter, substitute, and add different things. Pretty soon you don't even need a recipe. You know how to throw it all together in a bowl and make it come out right, different, maybe even better. <br /><br />I vote for the middle ground. You can kill a story by stripping it to the bone (ascetic, by-the-book writing) or by careless, indulgent writing that drips with adverbs and adjectives.Scheherazadehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08906467791904395295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-66195565981816013002011-04-19T06:57:41.520-04:002011-04-19T06:57:41.520-04:00Hi, Jodi, I enjoyed this insightful post. Stop by...Hi, Jodi, I enjoyed this insightful post. Stop by my blog, I gave you an award.Elizabeth Varadan, Authorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01708206753256682635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-26989535165273335112011-04-19T05:32:23.880-04:002011-04-19T05:32:23.880-04:00Hi. I agree, the middle ground is best. Too much ...Hi. I agree, the middle ground is best. Too much of many things (not only in writing) is not good.<br /><br />I would like to add though, that authors should read books, a LOT of books, not just about the craft. If one hasn't read from all genres, then he/she will not know which one fits him/her. And when choosing a gender, then read books from that gender as many as possible and analyze them. If one does not get in the "shoes" of the reader, then he will never know what readers want. Here the above rule does not apply :).<br /><br />Thank you for an interesting post.Jacqvernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17010653576746198205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-24406537271693186732011-04-18T20:50:37.222-04:002011-04-18T20:50:37.222-04:00Jody
This post couldn't have come at a better ...Jody<br />This post couldn't have come at a better time. I'm realizing that even tho I have a good idea, I need more education on structure and basic story elements. It's been a long time since I've studied writing, and I need to continue to educate myself. <br />I actually just picked up Brook's Story Engineering, and it is a great tool. <br /><br />And I agree, there is a middle ground but if the story isn't told in an appealing way, readers aren't going to care enough about the plot or characters to stick with to the end.Stacyhttp://www.stacygreen.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-40879123626709549782011-04-18T17:54:01.929-04:002011-04-18T17:54:01.929-04:00Jody,
I agree, everthing in moderation. And wha...Jody, <br /><br />I agree, everthing in moderation. And what a constructive way to respond to a negative comment - to the benefit of your readers. Thank you.Charhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07720391931415641419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-30857104923311891282011-04-18T16:24:16.355-04:002011-04-18T16:24:16.355-04:00I think it's a lot about the story... but not ...I think it's a lot about the story... but not ALL about the story. No, I don't think those who study writing craft books write drivel, and I think we do need a little structure.<br /><br />:-) I guess I'm in between? Not extreme? And that's... good??? *grin*<br /><br />I think there is a little merit in saying that if you try to copy what others do or be too married to rules of craft, not just in decorating but in the actual frame of the house, we get a little yawn-worthy. It's like going into a subdivision where there are only 4 different floor plans. They all decorate different, have different color brick or siding, some might have shutters and other might have stone gables. But it's still pretty repetative. It's not "bad" because there is definately a market for it... but sometimes it's fun (and totally GOOD!) to draw floor plan that is unique and all your own and you can build a fantastic looking house that is different than all the rest... but is still eye-pleasing.<br /><br />You can also do that, without experience, and build a crappy house that isn't safe, doesn't pass inspection, but you build it anyway and no one will buy it because it's against code and they are afraid it will fall down upon their children while they sleep because of all the weird angles.<br /><br />:-) So... there is a balance, like you said! *grin*Krista Phillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10772828583379163612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-22674584094283715792011-04-18T15:13:41.113-04:002011-04-18T15:13:41.113-04:00I agree with you, Jody. And similar to Bridgette&#...I agree with you, Jody. And similar to Bridgette's cooking analgy, if we have to read a cookbook to learn the basic ingredients for a cake before we venture into creating something called Double Decker Chocolate Lover's Delight, why shouldn't we also educate ourselves with the how-to writing books out there? It's always good to keep learning plotting skills and formulas. You have to have something to get started with first.Brandi Boddiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08017741568841209088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-12673160669760037692011-04-18T14:16:54.649-04:002011-04-18T14:16:54.649-04:00I think it's important to know the "rules...I think it's important to know the "rules" before you can effectively break them. Reading craft books doesn't mean you have to follow everything you learn. It just gives a framework for how stories work.Karen M. Petersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06972093977468313631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-26904125571697722402011-04-18T13:57:31.526-04:002011-04-18T13:57:31.526-04:00Hi Jody, I don't have your success to back up ...Hi Jody, I don't have your success to back up my words, but I do agree with you. Perhaps the person who commented had not learned much from reading craft books, but that is on him or her, not on the material.<br /><br />For example, many folks are good cooks, and developed their knowledge through watching and helping others in the kitchen, rarely using a cookbook to acquire expertise. <br /><br />Other cooks develop their skill by studying recipe after recipe before branching off to develop their own style.<br /><br />In the end, is there a difference? :)Bridgette Boothhttp://www.bridgettebooth.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-620884639450721132011-04-18T13:20:03.239-04:002011-04-18T13:20:03.239-04:00I don't think writers see things in black and ...I don't think writers see things in black and white, but certain personality types do. Writers tend to run the gamut of personality types, so there will always be black and white thinkers among them. I'm the type of person who shies away from black and white ideas--the world is way too complicated for them. <br /><br />This person sounds frustrated to the point of combative, in my opinion, rather than black and white. Frustration-fueled responses feel satisfying at the moment, even if the nihilism lurking beneath the frustration ultimately is not a great way to cope w/ the world (or in this case, the publishing part of the world).Jillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05536293384635588296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-3938553462563131602011-04-18T12:58:15.426-04:002011-04-18T12:58:15.426-04:00Fabulous post, as always, Jody!
I do believe that...Fabulous post, as always, Jody!<br /><br />I do believe that writers should study "craft" books, but through time, they will develop their own creative process.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15508887711850480059noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-79386914196414547822011-04-18T12:02:35.900-04:002011-04-18T12:02:35.900-04:00Hi Betsy,
Yes, I do think there are some things t...Hi Betsy,<br /><br />Yes, I do think there are some things that are black and white. Truth is truth. However, when it comes to the publishing world, especially with the ever-changing nature, I think we're wise to avoid taking extreme approaches.<br /><br />And shills of trad pubs? I'm pretty sure that particular commenter was referring to traditional publication in a negative light, which again is another extreme. Those who are in self-pub often stab at the beast of trad pub. And those in trad can stab at the faults of self-pub. It goes both ways. But I personally believe that eventually writers are going to end up doing a little bit of both, and thus should avoid all of the bashing.Jody Hedlundhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12424307540530719614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-49938113352878192332011-04-18T11:05:26.419-04:002011-04-18T11:05:26.419-04:00I think you missed an "extreme", Jody. T...I think you missed an "extreme", Jody. Too Little Coffee. That is an Extreme I see many writers make time and again. It's just sad. Very. Sad.Jaime Wrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07768583469408522818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-81425386369524617492011-04-18T11:02:12.897-04:002011-04-18T11:02:12.897-04:00Intellectually I know my struggles between craft a...Intellectually I know my struggles between craft and writing but sometimes keeping that middle road is really tough, especially as a first time novelist. When I find myself writing or revising in circles and making little progress on the page, it never fails to surprise me that I've fallen once again to my extremes. I do believe that this give and take between craft and writing will get better with each story written but for now, it's all about cutting my teeth on that first novel.Nancy Simahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10044841836637287500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-20108883247471746862011-04-18T10:43:22.252-04:002011-04-18T10:43:22.252-04:00I think the commenter was more of a "troll&qu...I think the commenter was more of a "troll" than a serious thinker on the subject. It is an individual's choice how they choose to approach writing.eBook Magichttp://www.amazon.com/eBook-Magic-books-Everywhere-ebook/dp/B004V0482Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=books&qid=1303137781&sr=8-1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-23457026480971997912011-04-18T10:32:36.882-04:002011-04-18T10:32:36.882-04:00Hi Jody- I tend to lean more towards the "no...Hi Jody- I tend to lean more towards the "not following the rules" writer. I don't really read writing craft books OR study the craft of writing, but I think my reason is because I write non-fiction. Since I'm writing what is true, I don't have to worry about structure or backstory or characters and instead just need to focus on presenting the information in a way that's as clear as possible. <br /><br />That said, I think that a novelist--- especially a new or newer novelist--- can't succeed if they haven't studied the craft of writing. I've read too many novels that have huge gaps or don't make sense or aren't compelling. In fact, I just looked at my nightstand last night and saw a book that i started three months ago. I have 43 pages to go and I haven't picked it up in weeks. What would make me start and almost finish a book but put it down with 43 pages to go? It's the structure. I got confused on the backstory of one of the characters and couldn't get past some plot gaps and it made the whole book unreadable to me. As a novelist, the best way to avoid that is to study the craft of writing because I think it isn't something that just comes naturally.Erin MacPhersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11665098986271579372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-48425897034715341112011-04-18T10:24:22.848-04:002011-04-18T10:24:22.848-04:00Hey Jody! :-) I think there's some balance to ...Hey Jody! :-) I think there's some balance to be had. You don't want to revise the voice out of your story but you do want a structure that works. Knowing the basics of scene and sequel and stimulus and response, and then being able to manipulate them, can go a long way.Paul Grecihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11340974339238587138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-23511101900771355862011-04-18T10:13:03.983-04:002011-04-18T10:13:03.983-04:00I wrote five stories before I knew much about craf...I wrote five stories before I knew much about craft. While they were fun to splash on the page, they wouldn't sell because they lacked some of the basic elements of a marketable story.<br /><br />I revised one of those stories taking into account the generally accepted guidelines. (Sounds less rigid than rules, right?) My agent sold that story.<br /><br />A story can be great, but it must be told in such a way that it appeals to readers. That's where learning craft comes in. It's not a case of either/or, but <i>and</i>.Keli Gwynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13236868298400593688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-58685266560290231782011-04-18T09:49:13.630-04:002011-04-18T09:49:13.630-04:00This is another one of those situations where it&#...This is another one of those situations where it's all about middle ground. Extremes are rarely useful and this post illustrates that beautifully. And as far as rule learning goes, those of us that were widely read before we started to write likely picked up many of the 'rules' by osmosis. You can write without reading craft books, but craft books will strengthen those skills. It's all about balance and I suspect that those that master that balance are the ones who will be the most successful at their craft.Jen J. Dannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00817943866838270699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8539581256374625880.post-39688795047634536172011-04-18T08:40:02.077-04:002011-04-18T08:40:02.077-04:00Awesome post, and such valuable advice for any wri...Awesome post, and such valuable advice for any writer.Paul Anthony Shortthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14393249001158230985noreply@blogger.com